If Ron Paul is Right . . . .

ron-paul.jpg You may have watched the GOP debate the other night and heard the heated exchange between Rudy and Ron (well at least heated on Rudy’s part) concerning Mr. Paul’s emphasis on the point that the responsibility for 911 lies with US Foreign policy.  Let me state right off that I don’t believe this for a minute (scratch that) second.  Anyone including the far left that jammed the text message lines to skew the insta-poll after the debate in Paul’s favor, knows that this spin belies the know information about Fundamental Islamic strategy.  Anyone that doesn’t believe that al Qaeda and other Islamists would and have been trying to bring down the west as an item of “faith” haven’t bothered to read or read about the materials captured thus far during the war nor listened to bin Laden’s own pronouncements on this issue.  Bin Laden is quoted as saying that the US doesn’t have the will to fight and he cites as his evidence the precipitous exit from Mogadishu by Bill Clinton after “Blackhawk Down.”  Also, they haven’t paid a bit of attention to the “Prophet” Mohammed’s writings in the Koran which states that all non believers (non Muslims) must be either: Converted, Subjugated or Killed.  Where do you think the concept of Jihad came from?  This is an item of faith for all Muslims other than those that are secularized or backslidden.

HELLO, how dare the left continue to spin on behalf of the Islamists and attribute anything else.  They (the Islamists) have not only told us what they are going to do and how they are going to do it, but they have been implementing the plan for years and years.  But I digress………… 

But if Ron Paul is Right that it is the policy of the US that provoked 911, which the left couldn’t stop swooning over, it must be said that the commitment, planning, staffing, training and implementation of the 911 attack occurred during the Clinton era and it would be his Foreign Policy that is in question which precipitated the attack (which reasoning the left is still swooning over).  I know they would like to have you jump to the conclusion that this is all Bush’s fault, but they can’t have it both ways.

My personal impression of Ron Paul in the debate was that of a weak kneed pretender that certainly doesn’t have what it takes to lead a nation, lest lead a nation through the maze of this World War we are confronting.  There is a misplaced movement to remove Ron Paul from future Republican debates but I am close to endorsing just that.

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25 Responses to “If Ron Paul is Right . . . .”


  1. 2 Jim West May 18, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    “My personal impression of Ron Paul in the debate was that of a weak kneed pretender”

    WTF? Do you think it takes a weak kneed man to stand on principle agaisnt his own party. Ron Paul has always been right about this war. As a Republican I supported the war but now have seen what a disaster it is. Ron Paul has guts, intelligence, and more character in his little finger than the rest of the GOP pretend conservatives combined.

    Giuliani a conservative?
    McCain a conservative?
    Mitt Romney conservative?
    These guys wouldn’t know a real conservative if Russell Kirk bit them on the ass.

    You do realize that Ron Paul was one of the first politicians to endorse R. Reagan for President, right?

  2. 3 stevereenie May 18, 2007 at 6:31 pm

    bd, thanks

    Jim West,

    I will give it to you that he is standing up for what he believes, but his weak knees have more to do with believing we need to stand up to the enemy. You supported the war and I supported the war and the disaster is not the war, but the management of it in a Politically Correct society. I’ve said that we will not win another war if we have to fight it the way those on the left (and a few on the right) have come to define the terms of war. For that matter we would have lost WWII if our hands were tied in the same way as today. Paul has given “aid and comfort” to those on the left that don’t have the same best interest for the USA in this debate that I am sure Ron has. Agreed that the top three do not have a pedigree of conservatism, but it won’t matter if we surrender our freedom to the left or our enemies. If you believed like me that we are IN WWIII at this moment maybe your priorties would change as well. Kudos for Paul’s Reagan endorsement. We were shoulder to shoulder on that one.

  3. 4 Jim West May 18, 2007 at 6:43 pm

    Steve,

    This war was lost before it started. What has made us believe, as a nation, that we can spread democracy at gun point? This is insanity and the sooner we get out the better. Besides, if we have WWIII on our hands and the opponent is “Islamofascism”, then why the hell are we leaving our borders open. Who is giving aid and comfort? Hell, Bush, is letting them into our country along with a free education. Do you believe that any of these other clowns are going to secure the border? Well, I’ll tell you know, they are not. If the Republican party nominates McCain or some Northeastern liberal RINO like Romney or Giuliani then they will get the pasting and quick destruction they deserve.

    Vote Ron Paul

  4. 5 Jim West May 18, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    I’ll leave you with this from lewrockwell:

    “Driving Them Crazy
    Posted by Anthony Gregory at 05:06 PM
    PC Progressives who love the state, Republicans who love war more than liberty and libertine conservatives whose idea of freedom is an empire that promotes drunken orgies all can’t stand Ron Paul. You can often tell a man by his enemies. This culturally conservative hero of freedom, a man with true family values who would never forcibly impose them on others (rather than a hypocrite whose youthful and adult indiscretions present no difficulty for his moral crusades against sin), a medical doctor and champion of liberty who refuses the standard perks of political life and spreads the message of free markets and peace wherever he goes, who has worked tirelessly for decades in the service of truth and harmony among peoples —- of course the establishment crooks, the red-state-fascists, the hedonistic warmongers, the leftwing thought police and the Caligulan hordes hate him. He drives them crazy, for he breaks down common perceptions of left and right, of liberalism and conservatism by propoting radical liberty in the framework of a calm, wise and respectable stature. Here’s a guy who opposes mass killing but loves America, who applies pro-life principles to executions and foreign bombings, who has read the Constitution and, unlike his competitors, the news, too. He has forgotten more about conservatism than Hannity will ever know, more about true liberalism than the Progressive statists will ever comprehend, more about libertarianism and real economics than the neo-libertarian sellouts will ever grasp. And he is actually humble, refusing to score cheap political points the way a certain fascistic mayor can’t help but do every time he takes a breath. What a hero. What an exemplar.”

  5. 6 stevereenie May 18, 2007 at 7:15 pm

    I received the following comment on the DU Watch entry which I assume is by mistake. I am transfering it to this thread which is the correct location. It was actually from Angel at Woman Honor Thyself: http://www.womanhonorthyself.com/

    Angel
    May 18th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
    that it is the policy of the US that provoked 911, which the left couldn’t stop swooning over, it must be said that the committment, planning, staffing, training and implementation of the 911 attack occurred during the Clinton era and it would be his Foreign Policy that is in question which precipitated the attack

    ..what an excellent observation!!

    thanks for visitin my haunt..please come again!!

  6. 7 MDBL May 18, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    Jim West… Now you are a thinking conservative. How absolutely refreshing.
    I am practically ALWAYS the only Jim West when in a room full of republicans (well, “todays republicans”)…
    Can we stop supporting this administration at some point?

    & do we like Rudy better?
    Is he our “new guy” with-out really having to show us much?
    He’s LIVING on 9-11 & we’re going for it.
    “I’m a survivor blah blah blah..”
    That’s talking tough & being strong?
    News flash Rudy, WE’RE ALL SURVIVORS!
    Like he was on top of the twin towers with his NRA card & a glock nine shooting at aircraft.

    Steve, I can certainly appreciate your perspective but you can’t squash Ron Paul right now. It’s funny because that’s the 1st thing I thought when the debate had concluded, “watch the establishment kill this guy & quick”…
    & what I great opportunity for Rudy & Ron to fight it out for a minute where we’d have actually GOTTEN A DEBATE, but no… Russart immediately moves to “what about the rebel flag in SC”. NOW THAT’S A GREAT SEGWAY. So strategic & bogus. An insult…
    Ron Paul is necessary… VERY NECESSARY!

    Steve please, you can’t have it both ways… “he’s wrong because they hate us for our freedom regardless” & “If he’s right it’s Clintons fault.”
    At this point I DON”T CARE WHO’S FAULT IT IS… Lets do the right thing. This isn’t a game. 3,400 kids have been killed & we wanna play blame game politics & continue to stubbornly support current policy?

    VOTE RON PAUL!

  7. 8 MDBL May 18, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    Jim West – Thank You!

    Oh could I type right now….

  8. 9 stevereenie May 18, 2007 at 8:42 pm

    MDBL & J. West

    Still haven’t heard a defense of Pauls thesis that the enemy is us. This ignores a lot of reality of the Middle Eastern situation and to the extent that it is true that it is because we are there, it seems that their response is grossly unjustifiable. Remember they consider it their right to be here and everywhere else and they are in large numbers in all those places.

  9. 10 MDBL May 18, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    Steve…
    You are a smart man.
    You know what it is!
    I actually typed quite a diatribe, hit submit & it didn’t publish.
    I didn’t have the energy (partly in fear that it would be wasted) to re-type.
    You play defense for our admin. & their policies & I can understand that to a degree (although I do think it compromises your credibility)…
    You even said, “if Paul is right it’s Clintons fault”… Party politics & that’s cool but you can’t play both sides & present an out for both. It’s like you’re a defense attorney.
    I hear nothing but great things about you Steve & mean no disrespect. I just think you hold the conservative party line even when you know it’s a bit suspect at times.
    You have to, you’re supposedely brilliant.
    Brilliant people know what’s really going on right now.
    & Paul is necessary… Don’t squash him yet (I know that’s the mandate & it depresses me), please.

  10. 11 MDBL May 18, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    & Pauls thesis is NOT “The Enemy Is Us”… Don’t do that Steve.
    You’re like Frank Luntz the way you re-phrase.

  11. 12 stevereenie May 18, 2007 at 11:24 pm

    MDBL,

    Let me clarify, Yeah, I vote the percentages, but I am in no way happy with the current administration. I believe they have totally blown the war thing (although I don’t hold them singularly responsible for that), the border thing and give me time to make another list and I would trade out the wimpy Bush approach in dealing with the D’s in a second, but we have this war that Jim W and I supported and it shouldn’t be some type of eureka moment to suddenly then move to the explanation that our foreign policy in the Middle East is the cause of all this. No, I don’t hold the Clintonistas responsible for that, I merely point out that the left would take what Paul says and somehow synthsize it into “Bush Lied” if they could sell it that way. Goodness, they have been doing it all week. If you read my post carefully you will see that the real target is the Left not so much Paul.

    I haven’t given Paul much consideration in the past other than I have actually respected him, but what ever you or I think of him, I believe this foreign policy explanation is very weak and misses the point. Sure, the Islamofacists would like us out of there, but I believe that we have contributed more, much more, to lives and their standard of living than any obtuse problems they feel we have caused, except for maybe the ruthless terrorist that will kill anyone for any reason. Also (and I want you to consider this as though I am saying it in large print) I am not ready to turn my back on Israel. Without that we have a deal breaker for the Fundamentalists Moslems regardless what you, I or Paul would do. So, maybe we are off to WWIII unless we give the facists what they want, which won’t stop before it is one of the 3 Muslim mandates for Infidels (see original post). BTW I am not so sure that Luntz is quite as guile as you seem to suggest.

  12. 13 misi May 19, 2007 at 7:31 am

    Whoa, you have a hot topic on your hands, I will just say thank you for opening my eyes once again.

  13. 14 bd May 19, 2007 at 9:57 am

    I would say that the Clinton era strengthened the resolve of the Islamofascists by pulling out of Somalia after US was given a bloody nose. The way we didn’t give any response to Rwanda, Darfur and walked-on-tip-toes through the Balkans didn’t do much to showcase American resolve either.

    Walk softly and carry a big stick, but don’t be afraid to swing hard from time to time when necessary.

    cheers!

  14. 15 stevereenie May 19, 2007 at 10:21 am

    bd,

    You are in my opinion totally correct here. The grace I give the Clintonistas in my comment to MDBL is relative only to the point that I don’t think 911 was actually the fault per se of our foreign policy whether it be the Clintons or Bushies. [Even any comments by the terrorists to this end are basically self-serving and unevenhanded.] We could stay in the Middle East and please some Middle Easterners and anger other or we could pull out of the Middle East and Please others and anger some. In the end we look to our own national interest and as I said to MDBL I’m not ready to turn my back on Israel. (Whoa unto you nations). I feel that the Islamofacists are emboldened by our talk and actions about defeat, withdrawal, guilt. I thought it was settled a long time ago that these boys only respect strength.

  15. 16 stevereenie May 19, 2007 at 10:55 am

    Misi,

    Thanks for stopping by again. Yeah, this has been a bit of spirited debate but I think in goodwill. For me it is good and thought provoking. Left you a note of encouragement on your site.

  16. 17 misi May 19, 2007 at 11:13 am

    Thank you for the encouragement, it means so much!

  17. 18 MDBL May 19, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    His foriegn policy is / was (in his 1 minute quip during the debate) one sided to be sure… but I’m just asking that we don’t dismiss the point he raises because it does have merit.
    We’ve been selling this, “they hate us for our freedom” (very one dimensional as well) for far too long now.
    People still tie Iraq immediately to 9/11…

    I’m positively refreshed by his voice in the race because I think the republican party has been guilty, for quite a while now, of “group think”. It’s not good for the party.

    & the folks over at DU being happy with a few of his positions… So what.

  18. 19 stevereenie May 19, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    MDBL,

    So exactly what is it about his (Pauls) “foreign policy” theory on (lets just say) our complicity in enraging the Middle East and what would Paul have us do about it and where would that leave us and how is that good?

  19. 20 MDBL May 19, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    Wow..
    So you’re basically saying that if there is no current solution to the theory (if even correct), then why address it?
    He’s asking us to better understand the repercussions of our continued actions over the years & that’s not such a bad thing.
    Paul wants to cut & run… & he is right, historically republicans have gotten us out of wars (although not by cutting & running per say)… I’m not so sure I’m for dumping “Operation Iraqi Freedom” but then again I was never for going in.

    Tens of thousands of innocent people have been killed (not very pro-life) & I have a real hard time convincing myself that it’s just collateral damage.

    He’s just asking us to examine the complications & he obviously believes that we need to get out of their business.

    So if not for Isreal, you could care less about the middle east?
    I can almost get with your “we are there no matter what so lets get the job done” mentality, really I can. I just want people to understand that there are some deeper reasons that contribute to our occuation. I’m mad as h%ll about it all but I do believe we owe it to the Iraqis to get the job done properly (if that’s even possible, which is what most people are arguing about).

    See how I’m no longer using CAPS… I’m so compliant 😉

  20. 21 MDBL May 19, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    Now I’m on the west coast so I’m going to Malibu for the day… You should walk outside & get in the ocean as well. 😉
    What freedom!
    Seriously…

  21. 22 bd May 19, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    With regards to Israel, I can only think that our continued presense in the region is saving hundreds of thousands of Arab lives.

  22. 23 stevereenie May 19, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    Before you go outside just let me say. Israel is a deal breaker for me as well as the Islamofacists, but I believe we need to defeat them to survive whether Israel is in the picture or not. I don’t buy the point that we can make nice and leave and it will be over. Actually what will be over is them over here. And we have other interests in the ME too, just like they have here. If Paul wants preciptious withdrawal then we are the loser, not just on the stats of this “war,” but in this current struggle for survival. I do believe that this is WWIII and we can’t end it by jumping ship. One the Pro Life point, I attribute most of the purposful deaths to the insurgents and al Queda and I seriously doubt the rate of death exceeds the long term rate during the Hussein era.

    btw, I am siting by the window looking through a clear day at the ocean as we “chat.”

  23. 24 stevereenie May 19, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    bd, probably true. If we left them alone they would probably have to take out a few Arab cities.

  24. 25 mommyzabs May 20, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Whoa. I was gone for a couple days and missed this fun little discussion.

    Mdouble- On the comment that you didn’t get to publish. What may have happened. IF you put more than 2 links in a post it will get caught up in akismet spam catcher. DAD you can go through these on your comment tab and make sure they are all truly spam… those that are you can delete and those that aren’t (like maybe MDBL comment?) you can actually go ahead and publish. M- don’t know if you even used links but that *might* be what happened. I’m extremely jealous that both of you get to see the ocean right now, though be it from different coasts, one on the right, one on the left, HOW APPROPRIATE 🙂

    I want to offer a tangent perspective on Ron Paul in the last debate. HE DID DO SOMETHING VERY SMART. He got his belief out there in a way that is loud and clear. He spoke strongly in an arena where his belief was going to be totally disagreed wtih which garnered him a lot of press…. and thus people are talking about him and probably people like me who had no clue who the guy was… now know him. Libertarians often know they aren’t going to win the race but their goal is often to win followers and make their point of view heared. He did do this- and well. EVEN if we don’t agree with him… there are bound to be some who never knew of him and now side with him. So you have to give him *kudos* for that. Great PR move. Bad press is still press 🙂 Sharpton has been working on that for years and look- he is now very influential in MSM.


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